posted by Mike Madison at 9:32 PM /
I've posted before about the online City-Data message board and its very enlightening and entertaining discussion of Pittsburgh neighborhoods and communities, including Mt. Lebanon. Some Blog-Lebo readers are also City-Data contributors. That's especially interesting in light of the fact that most City-Data discussions of Mt. Lebanon are prompted by prospective homebuyers who are searching for information about Lebo.
This recent thread, begun by a query about the characteristics of different Mt. Lebanon neighborhoods, contains an especially insightful description of the entirety of Mt. Lebanon. The poster is Lebo resident "Janiesgirl" (a pseudonym) and her post on September 12, at 10:09 p.m., is worth reading in full. Here's just a taste:
This recent thread, begun by a query about the characteristics of different Mt. Lebanon neighborhoods, contains an especially insightful description of the entirety of Mt. Lebanon. The poster is Lebo resident "Janiesgirl" (a pseudonym) and her post on September 12, at 10:09 p.m., is worth reading in full. Here's just a taste:
Anyway, Mt. Lebanon is delineated by the elementary schools. By and large, you will describe where you live by naming the elementary school the kids go to. Example: "I live in the Foster area", which is the area on the left heading down Washington Road toward the Galleria Mall. Some areas have their own "names" such as Cedarhurst Manor, Mission Hills, Virginia Manor, Central Square, Old Virginia Manor..., but even then, you would identify with the local school and you would certainly also participate in the whole Lebo pride gestalt.
I'll give you a brief rundown of areas by school and perhaps in a later post, I'll give you a sense of what Mt. Lebonites seek/like. BTW, you'll notice I mention some "homes" in my synopses. Mt. Lebanon has several county-run group homes for different populations. I mention the few I know.
Foster - At the southern end of Lebo, bounded by Washington Rd. and Mt. Lebanon Blvd. Borders Bethel Park and Castle Shannon and ?? Some of the grandest and loveliest houses in Lebo are here on Hoodridge and Terrace. Some of the more modest houses are here too and there's a pocket of rental properties. Good proximity to the malls. Good proximity to the shopping area on Mt. Lebanon Blvd. Home to the "home for pregnant teen girls" - a group home for pregnant girls. Because the housing stock ranges from modest - fantabulous, it's an interesting and good Socio-Economic mix. The school's fields are a little decrepit, but generously sized.
Markham - Also toward the southern end of Lebo. Runs into the Galleria Mall. Is bounded by Washington Rd (Rt. 19), Painters Run, Cedar Blvd and Cochran Rd. Contains Bird Park and is adjacent to the Mt. Lebanon Park. Housing stock ranges from nice to fantabulous. Little to no rental. There is a private street down by the Galleria, Forest Glen, which is gorgeous. Has a few recently developed streets (James Place,?,?) that have big, beautiful new houses. Little parklet adjacent to the Galleria - Parents of toddlers take their kids to this very manageable play area. Markham, while it runs into the Galleria, can be a little more isolated from shopping. You need to hop in the car to drive up some long, winding roads to reach a business district. Some people think it's a little more "insular". The school has a reputation for parents who "run the show", but really all Mt. Lebanon parents feel very invested in their schools, so take that with a grain of salt.
Labels: hidden Mt. Lebanon
13 Comments:
I was discouraged when I read the thread where the poster discussed the Beverly Road/ Lincoln school area. The comment I had difficulty with was in relation to the alleged problems caused by renters and the subsequent negative name calling at the elementary school level.
There are several aspects to this comment I would like to address:
We live near many rental properties and in the 8+ years we lived here NEVER had a problem with any rentals. Actually, most of the day to day problems we have are due to people coming from other areas parking on our street despite usually sufficient parking in a metered lot just behind the shops.
My foremost concern, however, is that the prejudice against renters does not seem to be limited to adults but is a belief perpetuated among the children (although this is not directly stated). Is it reasonable to assume that kids are learning these prejudices from their parents? This kind of belief hurts our kids, not just the ones who may be teased but also the ones who hold onto this negative stereotyping. A dissertation could be written on this and if folks would like more info on stereotyping and labeling, I would refer them to Aaron Beck's and David Burns' writngs on Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (but I digress).
Additionally, I have heard some residents (homeowners) complain that renters do not pay property taxes and subsequently are accused of not paying their "fair share". I suspect that when property taxes are raised, rent is raised and this is how renters "contribute" to our schools and municipal services.
Finally, I have heard that renters/landlords don't take care of their properties and as a result, real estate values go down. I am not going to debate the statistics on this, however, my personal experience is strikingly different. On our street we have one rental as well as several apartment buildings on the street behind us. The person renting the home on our street is regularly out manicuring the landscape and making improvements. The apartment buildings in our area are very well maintained. By contrast, we have had difficulty with several homeowners on ours and adjacent streets. Basic maintenance is done only when the township is called and the residents get cited. Several of our neighbors as well as myself and my husband have done things voluntarily for these folks to help in the care of their homes. The chronicity of the situations have left most of us feeling taken advantage of however.
I am not sure if the person writing on the thread was stating her own belief or making an observation about how the community perceives the Beverly Road area. I don't know that it actually matters. The stereotype seems to be out there and as such, it does little to promote our municipality or our residents.
Not to disagree, but Markham does have it's share of rentals. In fact, "Markham" Drive itself (or close to it) is home to a number of apartment buildings that actually border the southern baseball field. All in all I never understood why folks would rent in the city when they could rent here (or really in any suburb) and give their kids a far better education than what the city can offer. On top of the fact that it would be a far safer environment for the entire family.
Too much delineation for our little postage stamp of paradise.
Personally, I thought the overall analysis of the Lebo meighborhoods was quite fair and and spot on.
As for the Lincoln name calling, relax please. "Lincoln Stinkin" has existed since at least 1975. When St. Bernards had a much larger student body, many of their kids would walk through the Lincoln playground. The Lincoln kids would moo and oink and tell the St Barnyard kids to keep moving. The St. Bernards kids would respond with, "Lincoln stinkin, you've been drinking. Looks like whiskey, smells like wine. Oh my gosh its turpentine!"
Sorry to burst the bubble, but we had no renter bias and we did not conduct a detailed analysis of the property values of the other kids' houses. We were kids.
Much like today.
Dave, I have heard a lot of adults in Mt. Lebanon say some unfair things against renters. It seems there is a strong socioeconomic prejudice here. Children follow the lead of their parents.
I didn't read anything about Washington School but I believe that area has the highest amount of rental - Shady Drive E and w, Academy, Cedar, Florida, Castle Shannon Blvd and of course Washington Road. Since I don't have children in school, I have no idea what problems if any this rental kids cause. One thing I can say is the past 20 years the decline in appearance of those sidebyside duplexes on Shady Drive East near the intersection of Castle Shannon Blvd. Most of these units have their garage cans in the front yard and toys littered everywhere all the time. These units are within 1/4 mile of the $600,000 Mission Hills Houses!
Oh my, toys in a lawn! How low class can we be to allow this in LEBO? As for the garbage cans, how would you like to walk around 3 houses that are attached to take yours around back so as not to offend those who live in $600,000 houses 1/4 of a mile away?
I think that having renters in Lebo is a good thing, at least we have some economic diversity.
Its all about pride. I live in a modest house in Mt Lebanon and have to climb down steep steps to my garbage cans in the back of the house. Sure I could put a can on the front porch or the deck but I have more respect for my neighbors. I believe there is also an Ordinance in Mt Lebo about the location of garbage cans.
7:29,
That's brave complaining about people anonymously on a blog. I walk past those houses 2-3 times a day. They're nice people with *a lot* of kids. What do you care what their yard looks like? Certainly doesn't look as bad as the sheriff's sale *house* much further up the block.
I wasn't sure that I needed to respond to anonymous 7:29 - the tone of their post supports anyone defending renters, but as a third generation Mt. Lebanon resident and long time renter.....
"Janie'sgirl" is incorrect - stinkin' lincoln is just stupid childish phrase, it really does not have anything to do with the number of rental units.
Secondly, if a property is in disrepair, why is the negativity directed at the children and not the owners? The owners are responsible for the condition of the building and the placement of tenants. A property that I lived in fifteen years ago was supposed to be painted on the exterior when we moved into it - that property is still unpainted today , years after we left it. By the way, the owner lives in a *very nice* part of Mt. Lebanon. Also, Gina is correct - there is a strong anti-rental sentiment - and I have heard it from many people whose own property is a mess and whose family could be guests on "Jerry Springer". Most of the serious crime in Mt. Lebanon that makes the news involves people in owner-occupied houses. Follow the police blotter online - I see occasional problems in areas that I know contain rentals, but I see many more actors with very nice addresses.
Rental kid mom
After reading the postings on this blog, sounds like we are having a rash of "drive by snootings" here in the bubble.
In terms of both the original post and the comments that followed about renters, more cons than pros, it is interesting to note that the two elementary schools that have won the most (or only?) blue ribbon awards are Lincoln and Washington; these two schools have MORE children from lower SES households than the other elem. schools, at least as measured by number of children qualifying for free or reduced milk (a typical way SES is measured by school districts). This is also something that the poster on the original web site did not bother to mention, maybe because it goes against the theory that richer (+ whiter?) = better.
I'm calling a halt to comments on this post. The discussion has been most educational, especially for me. Discussion of Mt. Lebanon's separate neighborhoods and their alleged wealth-and-class characteristics seems to bring out an excess of rhetoric and speculation, some of which is helpful, much of which is not, and nearly all of which says more about the commenters than it does about the subject under discussion. Enough.
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