posted by Mike Madison at 11:59 AM /
By Blog-Lebo Guest Correspondent Bob Williams
From projected parking nightmares to traffic logjams, losses of the existing tennis courts and possibly an athletic field, the footprint of the new $115 million Mt. Lebanon High School has already begun creating more work for the district’s problem solvers.
And there’s more hurdles likely in the future, say sources close to the district. While none of these known obstacles threaten the viability of the project, they will add substantially to overall costs of the school renovation. So far, school board members seem willing to forego the extra cash in favor of the $115 million renovation plans recommended by Celli-Flynn Brennan Architects.
At the onset, parking shortages will likely lead to more costs. With new parking spaces estimated at $2,500 a pop, Architect Tom Celli suggested school board members attend an upcoming commission meeting to lobby for a waiver of the 637-space requirement stipulated in Mt. Lebanon’s code. Right now, there are about 500 spaces at the high school. That number is expected to be reduced even further--not increased--after relocation of the six tennis courts wiped out when the natatorium goes up.
With forecasts of increases in other public recreational services in the new high school, and only 462 spaces in the latest design, visitors to the school may be tempted to park on Lebanon, Miami and Florida avenues, and Towercrest Drive.
But that’s not what Commissioner Dan Miller wants to see.
“I do not want to see those neighboring streets turn into a traffic mess,” Mr. Miller said. “That is my ward, and there is no parking permitted on those streets for school functions. I do not want to see that policy change.”
Of concern to Mr. Miller was the possibility of making Horsman Drive a two-way street instead of one-way. To do that, some parking and possibly student drop off lane frontage on Horsman might be lost. District officials engaged Trans Associates earlier this summer to perform a traffic study on the viability of making Horsman two-way.
“When I heard about that, I said ‘whoa,’ you are using the municipal traffic engineer for a study? In the summer, on a roadway that is more heavily used when school is in session? I told Steve(Feller), I want to be briefed on the findings, and the traffic study should be done once school opens. As far as what the district wants to do, they have leeway on their property, as long as it does not impact the adjoining neighborhood,” Mr. Miller said.
Regarding the zoning requirement for the number of parking spaces, Mr. Miller said the district needs to find out how many spaces they need, based on projected usage and amenities offered in the new building.
"Whatever that number is, that's what they should provide," Mr. Miller said.
On Aug. 17, Board President Alan Silhol suggested talking to the municipality about locating the existing tennis courts (six) on basketball courts owned by the recreation department. That option, he said, would allow for some additional parking.
“But what about the basketball courts,” Mr. Miller asked. “Where will they go, and who will pay to move them?”
There’s also extra costs for making Horsman Drive two-way. These would have to be borne by the district and are not in the current estimates. Some of that funding could materialize if the municipality waives the fees it charges all developers for a building permit. District officials have already asked that these fees be waived. In the case of a $115 million development, that fee could approach $1 million.
Finally, architects from Celli-Flynn Brennan met with Mt. Lebanon resident and structural engineer Dirk Taylor on Aug. 17.
Mr. Taylor has been a structural engineer for nearly 30 years, with extensive experience in school construction projects. For the past 15 years, Mr. Taylor has been Mt. Lebanon’s “go to” engineer for structural issues in all 10 school buildings.
Mr. Taylor’s examination of one of the schematic designs for the high school project raised several “red flags,” that to him warranted further study before going forward.
The lengthy document Mr. Taylor prepared includes drawings and explanation of structural “red flag” issues he saw in his professional capacity. They include but are not limited to walking distances for students, classroom size, building size, temporary classroom pods, athletic spaces and LEED certification.
“Yes, we met on Aug. 17, but right now I think it’s important that the architects have a chance to brief the school board,” Mr. Taylor said. “As far as my position is concerned, nothing has changed from what I put in my original report. I stand by it, and I hope the school board will consider my conclusions.
“If not, I am going to be pretty disappointed. In time, I will be more than happy to discuss this, as it is extremely important to the community,” Mr. Taylor said.
From projected parking nightmares to traffic logjams, losses of the existing tennis courts and possibly an athletic field, the footprint of the new $115 million Mt. Lebanon High School has already begun creating more work for the district’s problem solvers.
And there’s more hurdles likely in the future, say sources close to the district. While none of these known obstacles threaten the viability of the project, they will add substantially to overall costs of the school renovation. So far, school board members seem willing to forego the extra cash in favor of the $115 million renovation plans recommended by Celli-Flynn Brennan Architects.
At the onset, parking shortages will likely lead to more costs. With new parking spaces estimated at $2,500 a pop, Architect Tom Celli suggested school board members attend an upcoming commission meeting to lobby for a waiver of the 637-space requirement stipulated in Mt. Lebanon’s code. Right now, there are about 500 spaces at the high school. That number is expected to be reduced even further--not increased--after relocation of the six tennis courts wiped out when the natatorium goes up.
With forecasts of increases in other public recreational services in the new high school, and only 462 spaces in the latest design, visitors to the school may be tempted to park on Lebanon, Miami and Florida avenues, and Towercrest Drive.
But that’s not what Commissioner Dan Miller wants to see.
“I do not want to see those neighboring streets turn into a traffic mess,” Mr. Miller said. “That is my ward, and there is no parking permitted on those streets for school functions. I do not want to see that policy change.”
Of concern to Mr. Miller was the possibility of making Horsman Drive a two-way street instead of one-way. To do that, some parking and possibly student drop off lane frontage on Horsman might be lost. District officials engaged Trans Associates earlier this summer to perform a traffic study on the viability of making Horsman two-way.
“When I heard about that, I said ‘whoa,’ you are using the municipal traffic engineer for a study? In the summer, on a roadway that is more heavily used when school is in session? I told Steve(Feller), I want to be briefed on the findings, and the traffic study should be done once school opens. As far as what the district wants to do, they have leeway on their property, as long as it does not impact the adjoining neighborhood,” Mr. Miller said.
Regarding the zoning requirement for the number of parking spaces, Mr. Miller said the district needs to find out how many spaces they need, based on projected usage and amenities offered in the new building.
"Whatever that number is, that's what they should provide," Mr. Miller said.
On Aug. 17, Board President Alan Silhol suggested talking to the municipality about locating the existing tennis courts (six) on basketball courts owned by the recreation department. That option, he said, would allow for some additional parking.
“But what about the basketball courts,” Mr. Miller asked. “Where will they go, and who will pay to move them?”
There’s also extra costs for making Horsman Drive two-way. These would have to be borne by the district and are not in the current estimates. Some of that funding could materialize if the municipality waives the fees it charges all developers for a building permit. District officials have already asked that these fees be waived. In the case of a $115 million development, that fee could approach $1 million.
Finally, architects from Celli-Flynn Brennan met with Mt. Lebanon resident and structural engineer Dirk Taylor on Aug. 17.
Mr. Taylor has been a structural engineer for nearly 30 years, with extensive experience in school construction projects. For the past 15 years, Mr. Taylor has been Mt. Lebanon’s “go to” engineer for structural issues in all 10 school buildings.
Mr. Taylor’s examination of one of the schematic designs for the high school project raised several “red flags,” that to him warranted further study before going forward.
The lengthy document Mr. Taylor prepared includes drawings and explanation of structural “red flag” issues he saw in his professional capacity. They include but are not limited to walking distances for students, classroom size, building size, temporary classroom pods, athletic spaces and LEED certification.
“Yes, we met on Aug. 17, but right now I think it’s important that the architects have a chance to brief the school board,” Mr. Taylor said. “As far as my position is concerned, nothing has changed from what I put in my original report. I stand by it, and I hope the school board will consider my conclusions.
“If not, I am going to be pretty disappointed. In time, I will be more than happy to discuss this, as it is extremely important to the community,” Mr. Taylor said.
Labels: high school renovation
18 Comments:
If the Commission can't find it in its heart to give the school district a pass on the parking space zoning requirement, this community is in worse shape than I thought. Hopefully, they can appreciate the unique, once in a lifetime nature of this project as well as the significant space limitations facing all of us in Lebo, and giver them a pass.
I also think that the high school should do its part in limiting the number of parking passes issued to students if that's what is necessary to curtail overflow. Everyone extolls the virtues of our walking community, so limiting student parking to seniors or in some other reasonable fashion certainly seems like a logical cure. Again, these are not complicated issues folks.
Of course, for the 4th of July, concerts, theatre productions, and 3 or 4 Friday football games per year there may be some parking spillover in the neighborhoods around the high school. There already is. And here's a newsflash . . . this fact of life is not unique to Mr. Miller's Ward. Residents living near Foster, Jefferson, Markham, Hoover, Lincoln, Mellon, our many churches, and the Beverly Road business district ALL experience spillover parking on their streets. Its part of what makes a community like ours what it is. We are not Peters, Pine or CRanberry. We have some close confines and on occassion have to share "our space" with others. Personally, when we lived on Salem, I loved those Friday nights when folks from Lebo and some other town would park on our street for a big rivalry football game at the high school. It's what makes a community a community.
So again, if this project continues to focus on individual preferences and mini grudge matches between special interests, instead of the greater community good, then we're all screwed.
Commissioner Dan Miller asked me to supplement Bob Williams's post with this:
"Just as a follow up to this discussion I had with Mr. Williams- the comments attributed to me should not be interpreted as my unwillingness to discuss school district ideas. As I have said to several school board members already on this issue, I just want to be sure that the school district understands that they are dealing with an area of the 5th Ward that is already inundated with traffic problems and that I would be very skeptical to a plan that would alter the existing traffic patterns on municipal streets.
I did ask for Mr. Feller to provide more insight into the work of our traffic engineer as I wanted to be clear that any such involvement or opinion did not (at this stage) represent my opinion or any Commission opinion that I was aware of.
As for shifting park amenities, that is another issue that- as Parks Advisory Board liaison- I can tell you no one has approached me about. I can only assume that such discussions are very preliminary in nature."
Agree or disagree with Mr. Miller if you like, but give him credit for communicating his thoughts with the public to a much much higher degree than the other 4 commissioners (Dems and Reps alike) combined.
Stuart Getz
Free parking is a thorny issue at the high school.
We had a 1998-parking grievance at the opening of Mellon Middle School filed by the MLEA. I would expect another grievance filed if we did not have sufficient teacher parking at the high school. Sometimes a grievance is filed to trade for another advantage in negotiating a contract.
Parking for band festivals and athletic dinners has conflicted with Music for Mt. Lebanon performances causing great difficulty for seniors who have difficulty walking. This can be a real hardship for your neighbors who have difficulty walking uphill.
Students need parking for cars so they can travel to after school jobs.
Other employees need parking too.
Now the Pa. Department of Education wants a high school to be a community center in addition to their educational responsibilities putting more pressure on school parking.
The required parking has the possibility of running the District past their referendum debt limit.
My impression is that there has not been a central calendar where all the departments can post events and see what all the other departments are doing and work to avoid some of these parking problems. The spillover parking impacts the surrounding neighborhoods.Should school departments that don’t communicate with each other inconvenience those surrounding neighborhoods with unnecessary parking problems?
If Mr. Miller insists the parking is done correctly, and the departments communicate better with each other, the high school parking and the neighborhood parking problems might both be mitigated.
This is a problem for the school board to figure out. Is this a space issue, a communications issue, or a design flaw? The architect and the administrators can figure this out but they have to do what the school board asks them to do.
They're already borrowing more than they are allowed to borrow, spending more than they should be spending, issuing and wrapping more bonds than they should be issuing and wrapping, and, thus, taxing you more than they should be taxing. So, the obvious answer is, just borrow some more money and build a PARKING GARAGE!
Bob Reich, Jr.
Bob may be thinking of building a parking *structure,* above ground.
How about excavating several stories below the current parking lot, building an underground garage that holds 600+ cars, and re-developing the area above to hold the tennis courts that will be displaced by natatorium?
(The problem with making tongue-in-cheek suggestions like this ... is that someone in town will take the idea seriously.)
Mike,
If fact, Tom Celli mentioned this very topic (structured parking) on Monday. When discussing the shortfall of parking space, he made a point to state there is NO money in the high school budget for structured parking. And therefore the district and school board should lobby the commission for a reduction in the number of spaces required by code.
Just thought you folks might like to know that someone really did think about this alternative. Of course, it was dismissed outright as not "budgetable."
I wonder, will this be used to leverage the commission into granting the parking waiver. i.e. that by not granting a waiver, the commission would effectively be "forcing" the district to build a parking garage?
Hard to say. I suppose time will tell.
The Republican Committee did a survey about the high school that was supposed to be finished on August 14 and the results published by August 22.
Anyone who finished the survey by Aug 14 was eligible to win $100.
Have the results been published and who won the $100?
Celli & Friends appear flummoxed when it comes to preparing a complete plan.
Didn't they know from the beginning, there was a zoning requirement?
Or forget that, what about the parking required for a facility of this caliber?
Let's start there, how many spaces are required for: faculty, staff, administration, students, visitors, other...?
They have not even projected a need - now that is flummoxing.
Mr. Ewing,
I asked about the release of the Republican committee survey. I was told that those who provided an email should be receiving the results this week and that it will be posted on www.lebogop.com soon. They receive many responses and wanted all of them entered before releasing it. Also the winner of the $100 was selected at the RCML meeting last week and is being contacted.
A question:
If the school board were to ask for and get a waiver on the number of parking spaces or variance on zoning code from the commissioners, would MTL's homerule charter be in effect? Could a group of residents (say the est. 60-70% majority against the $115M project) be able to submit a petition to revoke the waiver thus stopping the project in its tracks until a referendum vote resolved the issue???
Dean Spahr
For sake of wondering, I wonder if our township's South parking garage could play a role in addressing parking needs at the high school. The garage appears to be within reasonable walking distance of the high school.
Marshall Waddell
Someone please clarify--but my recollection is teachers from Mellon-Washington can use the South Garage as part of the settlement of an unfair labor charge brought against the district by the MLEA. In the renovation of Washington?Mellon?--I do not recall which--the district eliminated some on-site parking. As a result, there was not enough on-site parking for all the teachers. Since the district took the action which reduced the parking spaces, the MLEA argued the district had to provide alternative space at its cost.
I recall the district offered parking at the high school as an alternative, but the union contended the high school was too far from the Mellon-Washington campus.
One of the items in the settlement was to provide space at the South Garage paid for by the district. I don't know how many teachers actually take advantage of that option.
The South Parking garage isn't a long walk for most of us, but for the seniors or others that might be interested in taking adult ed., or swim time, I don't think the walk in the rain or snow is going to attact people to the school for more community use. And isn't that one of the primary objectives from the DeJong study?
As for Homerule... reading it, it looks like it only takes 5 registered voters to file for a petition.
I don't know if it does apply, but I'd hate to see plans blow up if 5 neighbors didn't like the parking situation, or 5 18 yr old students wanted to drive to school. They'd need very few signatures to force a referendum on the parking or zoning issue. Delaying and increasing costs on an already expensive project.
Dean Spahr
Why are we so far into this project without answers.
One design request was to shorten travel time between classes for students. Taylor's letter suggest it doesn't.
Its suppose to provide more community use, maybe, but fewer of us will have convenient access to it and might agitate some neighbors.
A larger pool is suppose to attract larger tournaments, but again we won't provide more parking already in short supply.
Its suppose to enhance athletics, so we turn tennis courts to face into the sun, and eliminate a ballfield that probably every kid used early in their sports careers.
The design was suppose to promote interaction between subjects, yet math and humanities are separated into two different wings.
Its for the kids, but we'll tell them they can't drive there!
Dan Remely had what I thought was a good idea and now Mr. Taylor seems to have a better one. Both sound like they don't sacrifice anything and add a few wants for a lot less money.
Which we can put to good use keeping great teachers and supplying them with the ed. materials they need to advance our kids educations.
Dean Spahr
To answer Bob Williams, it is my understanding that the parking passes for the South Garage available to the faculty and staff at Mellon and Washington were valid only during a construction phase. Trailers and constuction vehicles were parked in the majority of the faculty and staff parking lot spaces. Once the construction vehicles were removed the faculty and staff were again able to park in the lots.
Brydie Ridge
Thank you for your reply Brydie, it has been awhile and I am admittedly sketchy on some of the details. I did cover this issue for the paper. I am fairly certain the unfair labor charge came after the school re-opened, and it did go unresolved for quite some time. There were some spaces on-site at Mellon for teachers (perhaps on Castle Shannon Blvd. as well) that simply vanished as part of the renovation. The district offered parking at the high school, which the MLEA rejected as too far. Some parking was also designated on one side of Cornell.
The union didn't feel it was fair to pay for teachers to pay for parking at the South Garage. But the district didn't want to pay either. I also recall teachers at one point used the library lot next to Southminster Manse, but the library??? folks were unhappy with that arrangement. Some teachers did use the lot, this is my memory from the time, and some parking tickets/fines were issued by the MLPA or perhaps MLPD for the folks using that lot. How many citations issued, I can't say.
I went to the Audit and Finance committee meeting tonight and found out the third day enrollments are up in the elementary schools and by two students in the high school.
We did lose 40 students in the middle schools; that enrollment drop will pressure future high school enrollment unless more people with high school children move into the district.
Let's hope those who move in for the high school don't decide to move out after their children graduate because the taxes are too high in five years.
Also, Mrs. Klein is recommending issuing bonds in February even though the design phase won't be done until November. The district will incur extra interest costs if the bonds are issued early offset by any interest earned on the bond proceeds. More resources spent on extra interest costs don't help us pay for the children's education, or the staff salaries and health care expenses.
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