posted by Joe Polk at 10:31 PM /
Mt. Lebanon is considering $49.1 million worth of improvements over the next five years, including some to make the township's swimming pool more fun.
Next year, it would spend nearly $4.4 million to renovate the swim center; $3.2 million on sanitary sewer upgrades; $1.8 million to reconstruct 1 mile of streets; and more than $1 million for turf and lighting at Wildcat and Middle fields.
Read more: www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/pittsburgh/s_694239.html
Next year, it would spend nearly $4.4 million to renovate the swim center; $3.2 million on sanitary sewer upgrades; $1.8 million to reconstruct 1 mile of streets; and more than $1 million for turf and lighting at Wildcat and Middle fields.
Read more: www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/pittsburgh/s_694239.html
Labels: municipal pool, renovation, sanitary sewers, street reconstruction
28 Comments:
Mt. Lebanon...PA? The same community I live in? How in the world can they justify spending that amount of $$??
Easy--just use the same accounting methods the school board employs and apparently you can afford anything.
I agree with Charlie. At a time when there is a debate about reducing services for residents, do we really these additional expenses? I can see the justification for the $3.2 million on sanitary sewer upgrades and $1.8 million for street reconstruction, but everything else is simply unnecessary.
I encourage everyone with an opinion on this subject to participate in the strategic financial plan survey available on the Muni. website, and attend the public budget review meetings and public hearings to be conducted starting in October...call and/or write to your Ward Commissioner or the entire Commission.
Please take this step...they want to hear and see our opinions as a community, not just a few bloggers.
Bill Lewis
Thank you, Bill for being on top of these things as usual.
Like Matthew, I can certainly justify the $3.2 million for sanitary sewer upgrades (I live on a street that was hit hard by the heavy rain last month) and street reconstruction. We also need to add storm sewer upgrades as well. I can understand spending "some" money on the swim center. However, we DO NOT need a beach and a climbing wall.
I see way too much excess here. Before you know it, we'll be asked to fork over $900 per family in order to use the recreation facilities. That's what happened in Upper St. Clair, and residents are not happy, but they were stuck.
I am not in favor of building the water park, but consider this perspective - if we cut 5% from the school district budget and proportionately increase municipal taxes then we'd easily be able to find $3.2MM for the sewers with money left to reduce long term debt, OR we would probably be able to afford the water park while keeping taxes neutral.
My point is that the problem with taxes in our community isn't with the municipality; the problem is with the excessive fat that sits on the school district payroll year after year after year.
So, my proposal is to consolidate the schools, employ service delivery, increase the class sizes, eliminate programs, reduce the big fat payroll, and cut the school district taxes!
What has the Mt. Lebanon School District turned into? Are we a "foreign aid package" for the South Hills? Enough is enough!
Mr. Kendrick, certainly you've lived here long enough to know that larger classes and fewer programs will not fly.
Turfing Mellon and Wildcat is long overdue. Field space is at a premium, regardless of which sport your kids play. Turf will increase their availability and overall usefulness. They should do the same at Jefferson.
Sloping the pool and building a climbing wall sound like "wants" rather than "needs". Same with the proposed aesthetic changes to the golf course (and I'm a golfer).
Sewers and streets are a no-brainer.
Mr. Franklin, are you prepared to make a donation to turf every ten years when it needs replaced? If you are you are the exception in the sports boosters.
Turf has many toxic materials contained in it and no one knows the long term health effect on children. See the Green Building Council website on LEEDS certification for details.
Definitely sewers and streets. Turf? The ONLY plus to go that route is watching Mr. Kubit squirm when John Ewing asks, "You didn't look at it, Ed, did you?" That was priceless.
Elaine Gillen
Mr. Ewing, I don’t expect you to understand or appreciate the need for better fields in our community. Heck, between you and Mr. Kendrick, we should probably just close the schools, shut off all funding of recreational activities, erect a barbed wire fence along our borders and hunker down while we await whatever natural disaster, disease or unforeseen calamity that is sure to destroy life as we know it in the South Hills. I would place the support (cash and non-cash) provided by the athletic organizations in this community (and their individual participants) as second to none. Each organization regularly contributes CASH to the maintenance and upkeep of the fields (I think baseball’s contribution last year alone was around $12,000), not to mention the countless man hours that are volunteered by baseball, soccer, football and lacrosse dads on a weekly basis. Drive by the Dixon Field complex on any weeknight or weekend during the summer and you will see 3 to 4 taxpayers watering, dragging and contributing to the general upkeep of these resources. The same is true for the neighborhood fields at the elementary schools. The volunteer revitalization of the Howe field by those residents was nothing short of spectacular. Please also be reminded that nearly every ounce of remedial work at the baseball fields is paid for out of the baseball association’s coffers. The field dry, the lime, the other products that make them playable for the near 1,000 participants comes straight from the association . . . not your precious tax dollars.
Whether you and others choose to believe it or not, thousands upon thousands of our residents use every ounce of our limited field space on a weekly basis. I would invite you to look at the community’s master field schedule for the coming weeks and I can assure you won’t find a single patch of grass left unused. Currently, we have sports programs practicing in parking lots and tennis courts when they can’t find an open field. Unfortunately, we don’t have the space (or the support from malcontents like you) to add additional fields in our community. Therefore, to increase the usefulness of our existing field space it only makes sense to modify it so as to maximize its overall availability. Turf and lighting accomplish this task.
I believe the time is near when all of us will be paying something (or more) for the services that we currently receive for free (or at little cost). That’s simply the reality of life these days, unless you support significant annual tax increases or a complete elimination of services and recreational opportunities. I am certain that if and when the time comes for the athletic community to contribute additional funds for the maintenance and upkeep of these facilities (turfed or not) they will do their part . . . and then some.
Mr. Franklin, my high school is raising $35,000,000 for sports facilities on a volunteer givingbasis. Did you give the $12,000 or did you let your neighbors pay your bill for you? Enough about youth sports !
We need to stop whining and reduce the number of sports offerings to cut down on the number of fields. If you don't want to do that then stop lying to the community about how much money you will raise for new fields. The athletic supporters have lied to this community for over 20 year about how much money they will raise for sports. Where is the funding for the Scott Twp. field near Twin Hills? Where is the money for the McNielly field grading? It was promised and never raised. Lying is a poor example for children.
You have whined enough about being conservative on school spending. It is time to put Up or shut up !
How much are you gifting to the youth sports groups?
Dave,
I know how hard residents and boosters work to keep the fields maintained. But I'm puzzled that you think turf would be a better option than grass if you're advocating for taxpayer supported field maintenance.
Do you have any comparative data indicating why turf is the cheaper or more efficient way to go?
To me that seems like another major infrastructural purchase, with an ongoing capital outlay for repairs, which is the sort of think everyone's bemoaning about the pool.
I don't think we should make any major spending decisions without understanding the return on community investment. I'm afraid that for time being, given the fiscal situation our township is in, we'll have to simply continue to rely on the hard work of volunteers.
It's a shame that that effort goes widely unrecognized. Believe me.
Perhaps I didn't make myself clear Mr. Ewing. As you know, the Youth Sports Alliance was formed by the various youth sports groups in Lebo to help improve and establish athletic facilities. Commissioner Dale Colby was instrumental in creating the YSA. The YSA has helped fund many improvements in our various recreational facilities and has assisted in the maintenance of those facilities since the early 1990s.
Each youth sports association (baseball, softball, football, soccer) contributes to the YSA. The funds come from each association’s operating budget, which includes funds received through registration fees and fundraising efforts. The Baseball Association contributed $12,000 in 2009 to the Youth Sports Alliance and will do so again this year. I believe the general rule is that each association contributes $12 per participant annually.
As you also know, the Soccer Association previously gifted the property for additional soccer fields many years ago, but unfortunately the anti-sport lobby killed that initiative.
Since you’ve asked, I’ve personally contributed thousands to the sports groups in both registration fees and straight donations in last few years. I don’t want a pat on the back for that and if asked I would probably contribute more. In addition, I coach three sports and volunteer additional time to serve on the Boards of the Soccer Association, the Football Association and the Baseball Association. I do these things for a variety of reasons. I do these things because someone did them when my Dad played youth sports here, someone did them when I played youth sports here, someone did them for the youth in Mt. Lebanon before I had my own kids here, and now I want to continue to contribute so that other kids in Lebo can be healthy, responsible, well-rounded members of the community. I don’t bother to check the profit margin or the economics of these decisions. I (and thousands of other adults in Lebo) do these things because they are simply the right thing to do.
Are our youth sports associations perfect in every respect? Far from it. However, I think it’s fair to say that the baseball, softball, football and soccer associations have not survived and prospered in this community for a combined 120+ years on the basis of hand outs and whining.
As for the economics of turf over grass, I don’t know the answer. My support for this initiative is based solely upon maximizing the usable field space. Turfing Mellon and Wildcat would ensure nearly 100% availability during the current periods of use and the addition of lights at Mellon would increase those hours of operation by several hours a day. This benefits not only the teenagers who play baseball, but also the 4 year olds who play soccer through the Rec Dept. In reality, the cheapest thing to do is to buy into the nonsense espoused by a few malcontents and drastically reduce or eliminate youth sports and level the existing field space. That would save us millions, yippee!
As I see it, if we’ve come to the conclusion that youth sports are a worthwhile and critical component to life here in Mt. Lebanon then why on earth wouldn’t we just budget for the expense of the inevitable replacement every 10 years? We seem to be so opposed to the idea of planning and budgeting when it comes to preserving our resources. Will there be trade offs? Absolutely. Will certain groups be upset if monies previously earmarked for their activity go to the fields? Absolutely. However, I’m reasonably confident that upgrading and maintaining our limited field space so as to ensure that sports and recreation retain their place in our community would be a priority among many – if not most – in our community.
Don't "TURF" on me, Mr. Franklin !
A Lebo ALERT was issued today as follows:
"This is an important notice from Lebo ALERT:
"Water main break on Cochran Road near Lebanon. Cochran Rd will be closed most of the day to all traffic between Florida Ave & Cedar for repairs."
There are other priorities in our community that have been ignored for years because of youth sports.It is time to concentrate our available resources elsewhere. This is the second water line/main break near the high school in two years. We need to fix the infrastructure in the water and sewers, the streets, and the sidewalks before we squander more dollars on turf and other youth sports.
You said a good deal about the efforts of youth sports groups, Mr. Franklin, when you said you would probably give more if you were asked. The problem is nobody asks for the funds to fulfill the promises that are make for millions of dollars that are never received because the effort is never made. There are too many lazy folks in youth sports that have a long want-list but are not willing to do the work to raise the funds. But you can bet when it comes time to replace the turf someone will claim the turf is spreading MRSA.
"There are other priorities in our community that have been ignored for years because of youth sports."
Name one . . .
I already named them, Mr Franklin. Perhaps the schools can provide you with a reading specialist.
Maybe I should pose my question differently. What monies have been spent on youth sports that would have otherwise been spent on waterlines, sewers and streets?
And please keep in mind Mr Ewing that the larger recreational resources (the pool, parks, tennis courts, golf course etc) are predominantly used by residents over 18.
I'm not trying to be difficult, but to suggest that youth sports are the reason we have bad sidewalks and failing water/sewer lines is simply absurd. Perhaps you can show me the line item on the Lebo budget for Youth Sports.
I see the boy’s soccer team is having a car wash on 8/28 at Dixon field. Dixon field belongs to the township. Are residents paying the water bill for soccer’s fundraiser?
Mr. Franklin also wants to put turf on Dixon field. Will taxpayers pay the bill for turf on Dixon field instead of paving streets and buying sewer and water lines?
Mr. Franklin, the Master Design Team meeting minutes of 9/21/2009 contain the following statement:
“Dan Remely indicated that the athletic boosters believe that they can raise $8-Million to build an athletic fieldhouse of some kind and while that has not yet materialized the stadium building can be a part of that effort.“
$8-Million dollars raised by the athletic boosters on a voluntary-giving basis would be a great start toward relieving the pressure on the community of an expensive school building, help to regain the credibility of the broken promises we have received from the athletic boosters these last twenty years, and make other resources available for community infrastructure as opposed to youth sports.
Are you aware of any extra fund raising effort underway by the athletic boosters or are we just getting more requests for more expenditure on youth sports and more empty promises from the athletic boosters?
Now you seem to be way off point, especially since the issue here has been municipal (rather than school) spending. And although you continue to ignore my questions, I will nevertheless go the other route and politely answer yours.
No, I'm not aware of any current efforts to raise money for a field house. That's probably because the school board has made the value judgment that this aspect of student life is important in our district and they have included plans for a field house (and other upgraded athletic facilities) in the larger plan and budget for the high school project. Similarly, I would note that the band and symphony are not raising private funds for the new auditorium or rehearsal space, because the school board also feels strongly about that aspect of student life.
However, if the school board were to take the position that a field house or a swimming pool or the tennis courts, or an auditorium, or or you name it were no longer part of the larger plan in this district, I am reasonably confident that some effort would be made by residents of Mt. Lebanon to find those funds elsewhere.
Back to the point at hand, you previously suggested that spending on youth sports has a direct correlation to our failing sidewalks, streets and sewer lines. So, I'm still interested in hearing your rationale for how spending on youth sports has led to a failing municipal infrastructure. What level or types of spending by the municipality do you believe is appropriate for youth sports? Or should we just get rid of them all?
Mr. Franklin, $8-Million in voluntary giving from the athletic boosters to pay for the school athletic facilities would free $8-Million for infrastructure at the municipal level. Promises were made and not kept by the athletic boosters.
If you are raising the specter of school spending again, why do PTA’s raise funding for playgrounds at the elementary level and live up to their promises while the athletic boosters break their word. What is good for the good for the goose is good for the gander.
I am personally tired of wasteful school spending and padded school budgets while the municipality skimps on infrastructure. I would rather pay a tax increase to the municipality to keep the blessings of our community than to let the athletic boosters play politics and turf fields while municipal employees loose their jobs and possibly their pensions.
If you want turf for the municipal fields you need to raise the funds yourself.
Huh? Do you mean to tell me that if I ask the Commissioners why our water or sewer lines are failing, they're going to tell me that it's because of all those pesky youth sports programs and all of the other dollars that our school district spends on athletics and other extracurricular activities? If I ask our commissioners why some municipal employees are losing their jobs are they going to tell me that it's because we have too many fields?
Mr. Ewing, it's part of a much larger picture. Our infrastructure is old and failing and our municipal employees are being cut because we don't have the money to pay for it all . . . period. Whether its athletic facilities, streets, the library, parades, trash pickup - you name it. We simply can't afford everything we've enjoyed for decades.
You knee jerk to single out youth as the cause of all of our ills. In your world, cutting some or eliminating all of them would free up cash and other resources to do other things. I suppose they would. Thankfully, however, our elected officials and those who vote for them see it differently. Thankfully, youth sports and our various recreational outlets hold a high place in our community and in many respects provide a unique bond for all of our residents, both old and young alike.
I appreciate the fact that for many folks the best and easiest solution is to cut everything that's not directly tied to traditional infrastructure, public safety and the personnel who support those tasks. We should bulldoze the golf course, fill in the pool and let our fields grow over. Our sidewalks would be great, the fire trucks would shine, and the water would flow through new pipes. But with all due respect Mr. Ewing, our quality of life would suck.
Make no mistake about it; these are interesting and often scary times in our community. We can't afford to maintain the marvelous status quo from 1978 at the current cost of things. I wish we could. I also don't expect you to see things the way I do. But to suggest that we can solve our many problems by eliminating youth sports or our fields is to suggest that we completely alter the spirit and fabric of this community and what it has offered to so many for so long.
Mr. Franklin you said:
“Our infrastructure is old and failing and our municipal employees are being cut because we don't have the money to pay for it all . . . period. Whether its athletic facilities, streets, the library, parades, trash pickup - you name it. We simply can't afford everything we've enjoyed for decades.”
You are correct; thank you for your agreement. We need to start with priorities that balance community needs. Turf just doesn’t make the cut! Empty promises from the athletic boosters to push their political want list(s) are poor examples to set for our children –as a loving son and supporter of the Mt Lebanon community I believe you know that.
My debate here is not to excessively deny our children but to highlight the need for prioritized spending. Unfortunately the school community has no discipline and I don’t see that discipline coming under the current administration – the proof will be the announcement of the price in the teachers’ contract. That price should be especially revealing in light of our plummeting PSSA scores. Five years into our Strategic Plan and we are failing our children academically. We need to address school academics and municipal infrastructure before turf – the children will be well served with grass.
Let me ask one more question, even in your world, I'm assuming you believe that the municipality should direct some funds to things other than sidewalks and streets.
In that case, what level of spending is appropriate for such non-infrastructure items? The current level, or should it be reduced? Can we continue to fund the library, First Fridays, the Farmer's Market, the parades, the pool? Where do you draw the line? What happens when the funds earmarked for those items fall short? Do we allow key facilities such as the pool, the ice rink, etc to die on the vine because our streets and sidewalks still need work?
I guess that was more than one question . . .
Have you ever asked why the Dormont pool lasted 80 years and the Mt. lebanon pool must be replaced or upgraded after 30 years?
Is there something wrong with the ML pool or do the Mt. Lebanon residents just expect too much from their neighbors' pocket?
If you have a want list, raise the funds to finance your wishes on a voluntary basis.
A fitting end to the debate Mr. Ewing. Let's just be Dormont.
Mr. Ewing, I couldn't resist adding one more comment. The home page of the Dormont township website contains this polite warning:
"Due to some rough patches on the surface of the pool, the Borough of Dormont recommends all swimmers wear pool shoes when swimming in the pool."
Raise the funds for turf, Mr. Franklin or put your want list away.
End of Thread
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